First of all let me start by saying I’m an everyday user and subscriber to Highrise and Basecamp, and I use the free versions of Backpack and campfire. In short, I’m a fan….

However, I’m frustrated with the family of 37 Signals products and how much overlap there is. Some of the features needed badly by one product are added to another, and in my opinion not added where they would be most useful. For instance, what is the logic in building in a great calendar to Backpack when it is desperately needed and would be better utilized in Highrise? Furthermore, why is project management kept separate from contact management when the two are so closely related? I’m subscribing to and using these great products because they are useful and help me manage my business, but I long for the day when some of these things can converge.

For me, bringing it all together into one package would be the killer app for me – Highrise, with all the great aspects of basecamp project management and the killer calendar from the recently updated Backpack. Like a Highrise with add-on features which changes the subscription level.

I’ve read the 37 Signals book “Getting Real” and I’m a strong believer in the simplicity of this approach, but the multiple product overlap scheme seems to only really make sense when it comes to revenue.

Am I off base here in my thinking?

I have exactly the same thoughts. Paid accounts on Highrise and Basecamp; formerly paying on Backpack; growing increasingly frustrated that these products aren’t merged yet. It’s too much to have to-do’s, etc. scattered all over the place. Instead of creating Backpack multi-user, I wish 37Signals had worked at taking the multi-user products they already had and begin fusing them together. It’s the opposite of simplicity to have people checking Highrise for calls/people-related tasks, Basecamp for projects, Backpack (or Google, or …) for calendar/appointments. I cannot fathom why there are due dates in Highrise, but not on the tasks in Backpack, and only in a limited way in Basecamp; why there is tagging in Highrise, but not in the other products.

Here’s hoping the next “big idea” will be: “37 Signals multi-user.” THAT’S something I’d pay more for.

It makes sense when you consider that not everybody wants, or needs, the ultimate “killer” app.

We make use of BC, HR and now a multiuser version of BP, to run a design studio in conjunction with other online apps, TimFox and Pulse. We don’t have too many issues with the lack of integration, however, we would like to see the contacts in Highrise, accessible from within Basecamp when setting up new users/companies.

1. Project related tasks/notes = Basecamp
2. People related tasks/notes = Highrise
3. Personal tasks/notes = Backpack
   and now…
   Studio related information/knowledge base = Backpack [multiuser]

Replace “37 Signals” with “Adobe” or “Microsoft” and then consider if your complaints are still valid.

If I thought Microsoft was the solution, I’d still be using Outlook.

The problem, at least in my situation, is that there’s a blurring of those categories oscar7g defined. People are part of projects; personal tasks have due dates and hierarchies, and connect to calendar events, etc. That blurring leads to inefficiency and duplication.

I love the way Basecamp puts to-dos from across all projects on one page. What I would love even more is if on that page I had my tasks from Highrise as well. If to-dos from Backpack could be included, I’d resume paying for that as well.

Although it would be nice to integrate contacts with project management, that’s not really my holy grail at this point. What I’m having a really hard time with is that every interaction I have with a contact has a huge affect on my main calendar. Trying to keep everything synched up has been a nightmare. So much so that I’m actually considering moving over to Google Apps.

I don’t want to, I feel sick about it (like breaking up with your absolute favorite boyfriend in the whole world) but I’ve been playing with it.

I’ve been trying it out. I can set up the main components on the home page with gadgets and I can do all of these things:

Keeping customer interactions out of regular email – Fixed by going to Apps and having just those email addresses go there. You can always forward, filter, pop or route if you need them to show up somewhere else for someone else.

Email review per customer – If you move your mouse over the contact name, you can view all recent conversations.

Calendar – Beautiful and seamless.

Tasks – Can be taken care of with Todoist, Remember the Milk, GTDInbox or a dozen other solutions that integrate with Gmail.

Notes for customer records – In my case, I can practically do this as part of the calendar since all of my customers are date based for an event. However, it can also be handled by writing yourself a note in email format (GTDInbox automates this) and make a tag that connects it to the account. Alternatively, you can use Google Notebook or Docs to keep a master list of customer records and notes and link those over to emails or websites or whatever. This is definitely the weakness in the scheme. I just have to figure out if it’s weaker than not being able to manage a calendar inside of Highrise.

You would not believe what a HUGE fan I am of 37s, I talk about them all of the time to anyone who will listen. But I have three people in my company and if someone books over a date and I end up losing a customer (or worse, end up in court over a double-booking), it would be a disaster for me. I don’t think that asking for some connection to a calendar is very much to ask in a CRM, I mean almost all businesses have some date related items that apply to their customers. But, you know, 37s is great and it’s their company, they make the decisions. I just have to figure out what the best path is right now. This just makes me really sad that I’m even considering moving away from Highrise. I mean REALLY, really sad.

P.S. I might add that I’m not actually asking for a calendar inside of Highrise, I’m just looking for a way for the dates that I set up in Highrise to show up on my main calendar in Google, that seems simple. In my BDH (Barbie Dream House) I can see my main calendar on the dashboard.

Update on this: Fortunately (or not, depending on how you look at it) my migration over to Google Apps was a complete nightmare. I even had to hire an experienced web contractor to resolve the issues and he said that I was pretty much screwed. So, as much as people complain about 37s not having exactly what they want, at least I’ve never had a technical problem that took my business down that they haven’t always immediately tried to fix. Google would have left my business email down for three or four days if I had not rescued it back from their clutches and put it back with a regular email provider.

I’m not saying that this is typical of what happens with them, I’ve had other really good experiences but this cost me DAYS of reading forums, writing emails, begging and hiring a contractor and the only emails I got back from them were pretty much cut and paste canned responses. My business can’t afford that.

So, I’m still praying for some connection to a calendar.

I’ve been using GAFYD for email, documents, and calendaring for my company, and it’s been wonderful. Where they have a serious lack—contact and task/project management – -I’ve supplemented with 37Signals products. All the same, you make a good point, Cindy – for the most part, 37Signals is reliable and easy to use.

My own update: I decided to give Backpack multiuser a try, and it’s working pretty well so far – except the calendar is still nowhere near as useful as Google’s. I think I will be phasing out our use of Basecamp, continue to use Highrise, and wish for the day when these things could talk to each other.

You know, Google actually wrote me an email from a human being last night and fixed the account. They did not say what was wrong or say ‘Sorry you had to hire a contractor like we said in our Help files because this was our bad’ (which it was) but that account is fixed now.

I am trying to figure out where to go from here. I hate putting them in charge of anything that my business depends on after having the experience of having it be down for three days with no help but having all company email in one central spot would be sweet. And since I’ve been using them for my main ‘regular person’ email for a long time now, I guess it’s not that much more of a risk.

For doc sharing, it’s a no-brainer. The question I have now is how I can control the customer inquiries and calendar items. I’m finding that my employees don’t really look at Highrise, they want to look at a calendar but then they risk missing important details about the account. Maybe I could get them to make a habit of opening both if I set up the Google Apps home page in a way that inspires them to do what I want them to do…

But still, my life would be amazingly better if I could get tasks or anything date oriented from Highrise to slide over to the Google calendar.

This is tough so I feel for you guys that actually run a larger business, mine is small and I have a hard time knowing what to do.

regardless of too much, too little … i think the merging of the products is the next step in the 37 Signals applications. I’d rather see a stripped down feature set and then add-on “modules” for the functionality that you need. that way it starts simple and lean and won’t be inteh way of people needing just “tasks”.

but i’m not complaining … i have free accounts and love the products.

I agree with the merging sentiment. I am struggling with Highrise and Basecamp and wish they would talk to each other. Currently you can download from Basecamp to Highrise. However, my business flow has people starting as contacts then turning into projects when they are customers. However, there is no way to get information from Highrise into Basecamp. Hopefully this is solved at some point soon.

It is not too bad for us at the moment as most of the guys at the office who work on projects only work in Basecamp. I look after new leads and contacts so I use Highrise. That works and we can get by but the overlap does grate me when there is duplicated data.

Multiple todos/tasks I can work with as they are logically separated but multiple contacts is just frustrating as it should not be that way. We can certainly get by and i won’t loose any sleep, but I just hate duplication of data.

What one needs is a ‘GOD’ view of your 37s stuff. All tasks/todos and dates on one page. Like the iGoogle page I guess.

BTW Cindy, this is probably old news but I use the iCal stream from all 37s products in Outlook 2007 and overlay them so they are effectively one calendar. I believe the Backpack cal offers this feature too.

i’m dying to have all my contacts in one place… i don’ want copies from basecamp to highrise… i hate copies they make me sick, they are hard to manage, you loose significant data (tags, companies, access to projects etc.) in the way; they are stupid and they make me feel miserable. i’m not sure if it’s a ruby thing or what but an SQL contact table could be easily shared with proper locking between 2 webapps or maybe the different impact the number of contacts you have on the pricing structure in HR vs BC… but it’s really stupid, it can’t be smart. end of rant

Couldn’t agree more.

I have been using HR to manage my personal contacts and networking for almost two years. I have been using BC periodically for a variety of projects involving more people than just me.

But now I am about to launch a small business and I spent too many hours last week looking for an integrated solution that would allow me to manage the work that I have to do (BC) with the people involved (HR). The contacts involved span the spectrum from potential clients, partners, customers, etc. I cannot load their names into BC without sending them an invitation. To manage these contacts in both places without integration is now becoming more than just a PITA.

FWIW, I spent several hours setting up a ZOHO business account. I gave up after realizing that the ZOHO CRM didn’t have a “dropbox.” So here I am, still faithful, but wishing for better integration.