I’m a freelancer, so i work on a wide number of different projects with different companies. as far as I’m concerned, basecamp is a dream come true. it is, however, very frustrating in its pricing structure. Essentially the number of projects is being used as the main factor is pricing models, and atleast from my perspective, its very limiting to someone such as myself.

For instance, I’m on the basic plan, which is a highly reasonable 25$ a month. I can manage my projects on that amt. since I am more of less classifying each company as a project, and within that project creating todo lists.

I was thrilled today when I saw the third party app notice and decided to add in one of the plug ins for time tracking, and was disappointed later to learn that time tracking is only available to plans in tiers above me. I’m honestly not sure why, and the leap from my plan to the next is 25$ a month, which is excessive. Could time tracking not be an add on itself, with its own cost associated? I’d gladly swap whiteboards (for which I’ve never seen the purpose) for time tracking.

I guess my point is that I have worked with a slew of web based software startups and I realize its all about the end enterprise solution, BUT, while still in the phase you’re currently in, it would be nice if the pricing was friendlier to the individual businessperson. Its the only reason many people I’ve sung the praises of basecamp to don’t buy in. ‘

Otherwise, love love love your product, but will likely eventually create own solution since upfront cost of custom intranet will still save money long term over continued use of basecamp. (figure, custom solution could run 1200-2000, but I’d save money in my third year of basecamp use).

the leap from my plan to the next is 15$ a month, which is excessive

At your bill rate (or however you generate your income as a freelancer), can you not justify it with:

1. The time saved tracking time worked using this tool? (ie, you would spend less time tracking your time, and more time being billable)

2. The increased accuracy with which you are able to track time and bill your clients? (ie, capturing time that might otherwise go unrecorded and unbilled)

In my experience, #2, combined with one of the widgets that assists with time tracking has actually increased my income because phone calls and time spent on emails that might have fallen through the cracks are now getting captured and billed to the client.

I wish that were true…. but unfortunately, I already use, as most people in my situation do, a neat little widget that does exactly that. It just doesn’t integrate with basecamp, but it does integrate with my billing, which also won’t integrate with basecamp. And will it somehow generate for me 180$ a year? Probably not.

I guess my point is this: it is frustrating to me that you cannot receive these benefits for less than 50$ a month, which frankly, is a LOT. Its 600$ a year. Basecamp is great, but I think that’s a ridiculous sum for a small business. Particularly for a software that is still very new. I just wish there was a way to add on functionality without it being so excessively priced.

Point is, there is already technology out there that does all the things that basecamp does, for free. The beauty of basecamp is the integration, but there is definitely a limit to what the small businessperson can or will bear for that convenience. Comes down to it, I just don’t think its WORTH 50$, and I don’t need that many projects. You should be able to time track with less than 30 projects, nuff said.

37signals have just set up a page with some third-party tools – perhaps there’s one that does what you want?

well thats the funny thing…. that’s what prompted this discussion. i went to the page, and picked out a tool for time tracking (project recon) thinking that it worked with basecamp. trouble is, its not an add on itself, it just works to make the time tracking easier. you can’t add on time tracking unless you have it as part of your plan, hence, this discussion.

okay…. interestingly, in looking closer at the time tracking page, it links you to what I assume is the old forums, in which there are 11 page of complaints about the same thing.

don’t get me wrong… i know how start ups are, but i don’t have a lot of sympathy for 37S here. i’m still a paying client, and I don’t really see why only higher tiers get time tracking. The tiers are based on projects, not functionality.

I’d pay a BIT more, but not 25$ more a month (like 4.99 a month is reasonable) to add on time tracking. And since all the research and installation is done, I don’t understand what the big deal is.

so please, 37S…. consider it. Respond.

Your feedback has been noted, but we don’t have plans at this time to change the features on the tiers.

you could use zoho projets www.zohoprojects.com they give you already in their unlimited free account: time tracking, Timesheet, unlimited users, Reports and 100 MB space, and for only $5/month extra you get 3 projects and 250MB space. As easy to use (or easier) than basecamp. I’m no saying it is better than basecamp (although I think it is) but it gives you exactly what you want for free, I have no idea why you have to pay $50 to basecamp to get the same thing and basecamp answers you nicely with things like “we don’t have plans at this time to change the features”, in other words, we have so many clients and earn so much money anyway that we don’t care about small customers like you, you pay it or you don’t get it!

cheers

You can’t please all the people all the time!! I find Zoho projects to be free but very slow and not nearly as user friendly.

Slow? What is slow in Zoho Projects? I find it exactly to be the opposite, and the workflow is faster than Basecamp:

- Milestones and Task List are on the same page (which saves time) - You can create Task Lists within Milestones (which saves time) - You can add notes to Tasks (which makes it to be a more teamwork and flexible app) - You can add dates to Tasks (but you don’t have to), you don’t need to make a milestone for this and servers well for ticketing as well - You have timesheets, which you can see in a calendar or in a list view - When you timetrack a task, the time and the task in the note is automatically added to the timesheet - You even have a quite practical Gantt Chart in Reports - You can add tasks, milestones and meetings directly in the calendar - You can have interal or external task lists, and you can also have internal tasks lists within External milestones. - You have a forum module - You have a messeage module

What I have to admit is that Basecamp is very strong because due the their popular API there are nice external Applications which extends its funcionality, but they also cost money.

What I mean is that in this case is not a matter of pleasing everybody, is a matter of paying attention to customer requestes and timetracking is an important feature for Freelancers who dont want to spend $49 for that feature when they dont need all the other extra Projects or Space. It could be just e.g. an add-on feature for a couple of extra bucks or so.

Arrogance is a typical simtome from companies that dominate the market in their field. Competition is good for this cases because when clients can choose customer service goes for better, Apps improve and prices start to fall.

Examples:

Quark Xpress vs Indesign (from Adobe) AVID vs Final Cut Pro (from Apple)

The arrogance from Basecamp will come at a price, time will tell. Google one of the biggest among the biggest will come very strong in a couple of months with a reworked version of Jotspot integrated will all their webbase apps. Let’s see then if you guys treat the customers the same way you do now when that comes.

I checked out Zoho, and I’m considering it. Truth is, I am reticient to move all my clients from Basecamp now that I’ve got them used to using it.

That said, I’m a stubborn person too, and have absolutely zero intention whatsoever of paying basecamp 50$ a month. Frankly, I don’t disagree with you mario, i found their response to be utterly lacking in customer service and it came across rudely to me. Really, zoho doesn’t offer enough projects for me, so I’m likely to just take my cash and have someone build an app for me. More expensive now, but I get what I want, save money long term, and frankly, my builder can come back and offer it to other people on here as well. I know I’m not the only person who wants this feature, and I hope others say so here as well.

You can’t please everyone, but from a customer service perspective, it never hurts to appear as if you’re trying.

The funny thing in basecamp about their so named “tracking” feature is, that it is not actually a tracking feature itself like in Zoho or in Billings because actually it tracks anything, it is just a simple form where you have to manually put the time yourself and therefore to put that feature only on the high price plans is almost an insult to a Freelance since it does not charge their tier servers at all.

The same thing goes for language customization, 400 millions Spanish Speakers, 100 million German Speakers, 60 million French Speakers and 60 million italian Speakers (only in Europe) seems not to be important enough for basecamp to make a couple of small changes in their tier servers to traAbout nslate a couple of dozen of words in the menus to offer their service to a much wider customer range. Not everybody speaks English guys, do you copy that?

About your time track issue, take a look at this site, it is an amazing resource site for this kind of software and more, maybe you find an interesting application there:

http://o20db.com/

On the right site there is a list of “Categories” there you’ll see “Time Tracking” and “Projects” among many others. Maybe you find something useful for you there, at least it will give you some good ideas.

cheers Mario

thanks mario…. that was really helpful. appreciate it. Ideally, what I LOVED about the widget I bought was that it allowed timetracking on the desktop. Since I toggle between so many projects, I really liked this, rather than needing to be in basecamp all the time.

on the other hand, it occurs to me that really,if i could find such a widget without interfacing with basecamp, that’d be just fine too… i don’t invoice through them.

I’m happy to hear that. Have you actually found something interesting? Which is that widget you talked about?

cheers Mario

hzp was referring to Project Recon which, unfortunately, didn’t work out for her because it relies on Basecamp’s Time Tracking feature (via API integration), which is only available on the Plus, Premium and Max plans. We have since made this requirement more clear in the Requirements section on our order page.

Bring the power of Basecamp to your desktop! Project Recon is a widget for Windows XP that sits in the system tray and allows you to keep track of hours without taking your mind off the project at hand or opening a browser.

Long time listener, first time caller… I just had to chime in after reading this thread.

37signals gave you an honest answer: “Your feedback has been noted, but we don’t have plans at this time to change the features on the tiers.” What more do you want from them right now? They listened to your feedback, they said they noted it, and they said at this time they don’t have plans to change the tiers. Maybe down the road they will reconsider, but at this time they don’t have plans. That’s honest. Would you rather someone lie to keep you stringing you along?

Next time you get the bill at a restaurant why don’t you try asking the waiter to cut the bill in half because you don’t feel like paying for the full thing. I’ll pay $4.99 for this dish, not $25 as it is on the menu. If they don’t do it will you call them arrogant? Will you say they don’t listen to their customers? Or is that their price for their dish and if you don’t like it you can go to another restaurant?

And go ask Google, Microsoft, Yahoo, Adobe, Intuit, etc to change their pricing and feature set for you right now. Do you think they’ll drop everything they are doing to make the change or will they say “thanks, your feedback has been noted.” That is a reasonable response and that’s what 37signals just gave you. You may not like it, but it’s a fair response. Most companies would totally blow you off and not even respond at all. At least 37signals pays you the respect to respond.

All of the support interactions I’ve had with 37signals have been quite good. They’re fast, personable, informative, and to the point. I appreciate how they’ve helped me in the past. Everyone I’ve recommended Basecamp (and now Highrise) too has has a positive experience as well. I’m happy to be in their 94%.

Ok, we’re going close down this thread. It’s devolving into negativity and personal arguments. That’s not what the forums are for. These forums are here for Basecamp customers to help one another with Basecamp-related questions, tips, tricks, suggestions, etc. Not to battle it out over this product vs. that product or this company vs. that company.

As always, we read every post and take note of every request. We appreciate everyone’s feedback—negative or positive. Remember, approximately 90% of everything we add to our products starts as a customer request, so keep the requests coming.

Thanks.