Topic: NEW FEATURE: Interface design refresh

It’s definitely time to close this thread. Things have devolved.

All 9 pages and 215+ posts have been read and all reasonable suggestions will be taken into consideration as we continue to evolve Basecamp.

We continue to gather feedback from a variety of sources. The majority of changes we make to Basecamp are based on customer feedback. We already made a couple rounds of tweaks based on feedback. You can expect more as we continue to gather feedback and experiment with layout ideas.

This has been the pattern of development since we launched Basecamp back in Feb of 2004. We put something out there we’re happy with, people use it, some of them give us their feedback, we consider it, and sometimes we make adjustments based on that feedback. Sometimes the adjustments are large, sometimes they’re tiny, and sometimes we don’t make adjustments at all. Sometimes they happen on day two, sometimes on day 20, sometimes a few months out. Just about everything you see in Basecamp has been shaped in one way or another by customer feedback.

Some people are immediate with their feedback while others try the changes on for size over a few weeks or more and then get back to us. Some people tell us in the forums, a lot more people tell us via email. In general we favor feedback based on extended use than instant feedback based on a few minutes or hours or just a few days of use.

And, like most people, we favor reasoned, calm feedback over feedback laced with character attacks, vitriol, and cussing. Disagreement is great, just disagree decently. People don’t respond well when someone gets in their face, threatens them, cusses at them or attacks their character. That will not help your case with us just like it won’t help your case with anyone else you interact with.

So, again, thanks for everyone’s reasonable feedback.

Topic: NEW FEATURE: Interface design refresh

I honestly have no problem with the view. I think your complaints are getting really tiresome. If you don’t like it that’s one thing, but a lot of what’s being said is repetitive and bordering on personal attacks. I also think a lot of the reaction here is being overblown and generalized. I have dozens of projects and am not in “disorder and confusion” because of the change.

I think people have some valid criticism and are welcome to say their piece, but I a lot of what could be valid criticism is getting lost in the way things are being stated and exaggerated.

And finally, danjfoley, one person writing about leaving basecamp on their blog means very very little. I’m sure Mr. Karr wasn’t the first one to cancel his basecamp account and he certainly wasn’t the last. His post didn’t even mention the new user interface. What point exactly did you feel that would make? That some people sign up, don’t use it, and then leave? I could post plenty of blog entries on here about how amazing 37signals’ products are, if you’d like, and again, no point would be proven.

I can see how far that digging got too. It was seeded by you, and dugg by one user: you.

Topic: NEW FEATURE: Interface design refresh

This thread has been dug on digg.com find it and vote for it. And while you do check this out.

http://www.douglaskarr.com/2007/04/07/i-canceled-my-basecamp-account-today/

Topic: NEW FEATURE: Interface design refresh

I did take a minute to look at the blog, though no word of it was given here, and it just says “We updated the look. balbhalbh,” with NO mention of why the overview page looks like hell, or really what was behind it all. It was a general post about the new look of basecamp. I’m glad someone else came back to this thread and posted, because last time I posted, I was told by admin that Jason was ill, though actively posting in other areas of the forum. Strange that he’s so ill as to miss appointments (and I do believe that he was not feeling well) and tasks had to be assigned to other admins, yet they also could not post here about the overview page, like it’s some big mystery as to why it was changed and why we can’t have it back (cough stall tactic).

Well, it’s still a mystery, and what I make of the whole situation is that anyone who chooses to use basecamp will live in limbo, from one sudden change to another, with no more than a “try it, you’ll get used to it” explanation for permanent unwanted screen changes that cause disorder and confusion, as though it were some insignificant photo album software instead of a serious tool we use to manage our projects, hence be efficient at work, hence make money and therefore continue to survive on the planet. I don’t like people messing with my work, or my money. I personally don’t care to have things changed for the worse with no explanation and not even a slight consideration of putting it back. I think some people might barely notice the changes, because they’re not really using basecamp frequently, but, as I’ve said before, I can’t imagine what this overview modification was like for people with dozens of projects. To do that to someone without even so much as a warning is so inconsiderate I don’t have the words for it, but let’s just say it can’t possibly be good for business in the long run.

Since things aren’t going to change, use basecamp at your own risk, and try to find a Plan B in the meantime. I bet the first sign of a decent, affordable project-management software/service wins half of current basecamp users over. Then they’ll really know for sure what percentage of us are unhappy.

Topic: NEW FEATURE: Interface design refresh

How about relaunching the project Overview with two views “Classic” and “New” like the new Messages section? Have it so you can toggle between the views at will! And make it remember which view you last looked at and keep you in that view until you switch to the other view!

As you can see, the project Overview has not grown on me over the past two weeks. I used to be excited to show off Basecamp to new clients and now I’m almost embarrassed.

Like Tom Dolan said earlier in this thread, the biggest selling point to my clients in using Basecamp was how organized everything would be. Most of the time I’m only running one project per client and they don’t get to see a dashboard. These clients are stuck with a history list.

It may sound trivial to some, but first impressions do count.

Topic: NEW FEATURE: Interface design refresh

Jason – any sign of your blog post on this?

Topic: NEW FEATURE: Interface design refresh

“If you don’t like Overview, then don’t use it, clicking on that tab is optional,” might be the reply if an admin wants to be consistent with the responses to the List View.

Topic: NEW FEATURE: Interface design refresh

just to let you know. We haven’t forgot about how half assed the new overview page looks. Per my prediction you are just going to ignore us and say “we like it. End of story”.

Topic: NEW FEATURE: Interface design refresh

Sidenote: the new “Add ten at a time” milestones button is hawt. I could see that being used to great effect next to “Add new item” on to-do lists.

Topic: NEW FEATURE: Interface design refresh

Thanks Mark—more on the degraded functionality of Private/Public: Seems I can now assign Private To-Do’s to people who shouldn’t be able to see Private Items. Something that seems to have gotten broken in the Refresh, and as several people have posted, just generally bums me out re: the beating the Private/Public functionality (which is critical to us) has taken in the last week. Will post in Troubleshooting and email Support.

Update—a second issue on the Private/Public formatting damage. Now if you give an outside company rights to private messages, and they post a private message, not only does it not get a red sidebar, it gets a green one. See:

Call me conservative, but for anyone but a brand-new customer, this is confusing as hell.

Topic: NEW FEATURE: Interface design refresh

I would like to thank Tom Dolan for his many posts here – I am with him on almost every point with regards to the new release. I am completely baffled on how this Overview page made the cut. It is such a departure from the previous design and obviously less usable (at least to me and everyone else within my company).

Hopefully you guys are working on a solution…hopefully.

Topic: NEW FEATURE: Interface design refresh

PS. Could not edit my forum post in Internet Explorer 7.x so the idea that you only do things that support all browsers isn’t entirely accurate either so please move forward on a WYSIWYG editor for textareas in basecamp. ;)

I had the same problem. Hold down <ctrl> when clicking the edit button, but your point is valid. ;)

Topic: NEW FEATURE: Interface design refresh

For the most part, the changes have been very positive so I want to say thank you. However, I have to agree with a large number of users that the project overview page is no longer all that useful. It is very difficult to quickly scan the page and assimilate the content. The dashboard is much, MUCH better.

There’s mistake after mistake on the overview page from the red text in the blue title box to the large blocky “type” rectangles that demand your attention. The change from a column layout that requires the human eye to work hard to determine what is actually going on. It’s almost like two very different designers developed the dashboard versus the overview and, honestly, the new overview is very hard to use and not nearly as professional looking / user friendly. Sorry, but someone with some quality UI skills needs to redesign the overview screen to make it useful or that screen, which for many is the so critical, will cause people to dislike an otherwise fantastic product.

By the way, this is my first post with the new forums. Been using Basecamp for a long time but have been so happy, there’s been no need to post. ;) Take this problem seriously….either fix it for everyone (because it IS broken) or allow clients to select from a different overview screen template that more closely matches the original and/or the current dashboard view.

PS. Could not edit my forum post in Internet Explorer 7.x so the idea that you only do things that support all browsers isn’t entirely accurate either so please move forward on a WYSIWYG editor for textareas in basecamp. ;)

-jc (www.revenution.com)

Topic: NEW FEATURE: Interface design refresh

Looking at this realistically, there have been some changes, yes, and if you’ve ever been involved in redesign projects in any way, you know how tough it is to try to improve and move forward on something without getting a lot of blowback from users. Imagine what a pain in the neck it is when your users are developers themselves. Double-whammy.

There are plenty of things that have been mentioned in this forum that I agree with and would love to see put back or adjusted in some way. I have no doubt that the developers want to improve their product and have opened up this forum as one of their main tools to garner quality feedback. It would be a shame if the tone of this forum turned from helpful, quality feedback to whiney, crybaby, speculative national enquirer type stuff. Sometimes people get sick and have stuff going on in their lives outside of work and gasp don’t have time to update every 5 minutes.

Let’s keep it professional and we can all benefit from this still-great product.

All glory to the hypno-toad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z86zW8z8hsc

Topic: NEW FEATURE: Interface design refresh

Dan, buddy… chill. Dude, you’re seriously going from being productive to being an a**. Come on man. What’s the deal? Take a breath already.

Topic: NEW FEATURE: Interface design refresh

Ok, jason is sick. Feel better jason. I was sick myself last week. However lets not let this shift the attention away from the real problem here.

They just released 2 new design and functionality changes (image thumbnails and clearer admin settings).. Why no update on this?

Topic: NEW FEATURE: Interface design refresh

To clarify, while we try respond to as many forum posts as possible, it’s been stated (and is listed on the front page of the forum) that we do not offer official support in these threads. Any lack of communication or response by any member of the team is due to our attention being needed elsewhere, such as official help emails, programming, design, and managing all the 37s products.

While we may not respond to every single post, we do make sure we review the forums often to stay up to date on the discussions. A lack of response is not a lack of attention.

Unfortunately, Jason has been sick the last few days, and we’ve shifted responsibilities for the rest of the team of meet the many demands of his job. In fact, he had to cancel a business trip and speaking engagements in NY that was scheduled tomorrow because of his illness.

Topic: NEW FEATURE: Interface design refresh

Wow, Danjfoley does not speak for me, nor do I intend to do a quote back to legitimize his post.

While I don’t agree with everything Jason says I’ve no reason to doubt his word or question his integrity.

Take care, hope you get well soon Jason.

Topic: NEW FEATURE: Interface design refresh

Hey Dan, Jason posted in another thread about things getting personal, and I’d strongly encourage not going there. I have no doubt Jason is sick if that’s what 37S says. I got poisoned this weekend myself. The only reason it’s worthwhile at all to spend time here is that 37S is actually a company that listens and I think sincerely sees their customers as legitimate voices. I treasure that relationship with a vendor, and I deeply appreciate their efforts, attention, conscience, and commitment to making great products.

Jason, feel better.

Topic: NEW FEATURE: Interface design refresh

In the other post about this, people are wondering why jason hasn’t posted.. and get this, one of the other admins is now saying that jason is sick. hahaha!! Do they really think we’ll buy this? He suddenly get sick when all his users are against him…

I don’t buy it. I think he’s sitting there trying to figure out how to save face and not admit that he was wrong.

Topic: NEW FEATURE: Interface design refresh

Here is something they didn’t consider; Web Site Accessibility. The new Project Overview is definitely a step backwards for those who use a screen reader. Before the change the data was easily accessible being able to go up and down the columns. Now each row has to be read in its entirety, which really slows everything down. I’m all for advancements, but I would have to withhold my vote for this one. Please remember to consider those of us using alternative browsing tools when making any changes; no matter how small or trivial they may be. Thank you.

Topic: NEW FEATURE: Interface design refresh

Ditto Pablo. For those of us who use private vs public messaging in mission critical situations, the update changes are a huge functional step backwards. It’s inarguable that private/public status of messages/to-do’s is now harder to quickly notice. Why anyone would consider ‘muting’ this critical functionality would be a good idea is beyond me—it would be as strange as to remove the green bar beside client-posted messages. More minimal, yes; more functional, no.

Topic: NEW FEATURE: Interface design refresh

I have to throw in my vote (I speak for at least 5 of us in the company) that losing the red (pink) box behind the private messages on the main message screen is not nearly as user-friendly as it was before. With the update, it is very hard to locate whether or not a post is private, and that is very frustrating. For several days now, I’ve had to check and recheck if messages are private or not and I’ve skipped a few heartbeats thinking they were not private when they were.

A lot of the other updates are neither here nor there for me, but the red box behind private messages is a must have. At a minimum, a solid red bar on the left side of private messages – similar to how client messages have a solid green bar – would be much more helpful.

I’m a big proponent of Basecamp, and will continue to cherish it as a primary part of our process. Thanks for all you do.

Topic: NEW FEATURE: Interface design refresh

HaHaHa….u guys are too funny, arguing about things that don’t matter much at all…

thanks for the laugh.

Here’s my vote for giving us the ability to make the system look the way we want.

I’m part of the “vocal minority” that is of the opinion that the changes to the overview page are just ugly and not representative of what i’ve come to expect from 37S.

oh yeah…i’ve been looking at that page for a few days now and it’s not getting any better!!

JK

Topic: NEW FEATURE: Interface design refresh

I strongly agree with Tom. If you really do like the new screen, that’s fine but I would ask this. Did you like the old screen as well? If so then we can all agree we liked the old screen. So why not go back to it?

I’d like to point the following out: Publice Your Screwups

I can’t agree with this more, but here we have a screw up, that 37s signals refuses to admit. Maybe they should go back and read this chapter of their own book. It presents a bit of a black hole that can suck a company down: What about when you make a clear mistake but are too stubborn to admit it?

If they would just admit it, fix it as we suggest, all would be fine.

What does 37s gain by not listening and not making a change? Nothing but looking like a stubborn company saying to the majority of its’ customers “We know better then you”

Again i said “majority”. Everyone get over the arugment about this. It’s very clear that this is the case. 10 to 1, way more views then any other post.

Something else might be going on for those who like it. You might be thinking you just don’t know design very well, because with so many people not liking it for logical reasons, and you just don’t see it. It kinda makes you feel bad about your own ability to spot out bad design. So again instead of admit you are wrong, you come in here fighting, saying you are right. But you give absolulty no reasons why. We (those against it) give plenty of logical reasons as to what’s wrong about it.